The Truth about Aikido in MMAFiled Under: Rantings
I’ve heard it all.
“Aikido is too dangerous, so therefore it isn’t allowed in MMA.”
“Aikido doesn’t work on trained fighters or resisting opponents.”
“Aikido masters are bound to a philosophy of gentleness and non-fighting; therefore no true Aikido master can compete legally anyway.”
“Aikido is sucks in MMA, therefore Aikido sucks.”
“Steven Seagal knows Aikido, and he’s killed like 300 people. It must be awesome.”
I’m sure you can dig up your own “nuggets of wisdom” on a Sherdog or Youtube – these sites being the epitome of truth, balance and logic. ( Personally, I love the way information and error is rolled into one comical thread of flaming, poor grammar and misrepresentation)
Aikido isn’t the only disputed martial art in MMA; I’ve heard similar jaw-jacking about Karate, Judo, Dog Brother’s stick fighting, etc. There are always fanboys and haters, no matter what you choose. I’ve recently had some people ask me about this, so I’ve decided to post my thoughts.
Anyway, there is some sorting out to do.
In the next few pages, I’d like to see if I can shine some light on Aikido and it’s relation to MMA.
The Truth about Aikido
The truth about Aikido is that it is not Mixed Martial Arts. While this might seem explicitly obvious, this often gets lost in the noise of the internet.
Every discipline, MMA and Aikido included, has a set of generally accepted rules, ideals, and goals. Just like a culture (or discourse community if you want to get technical), these disciplines “share common social space and history, a common system of standards for perceiving, believing, evaluating and acting.” (Kramsch, p 127). On these grounds, MMA and Aikido are almost unrelated.
I think this is an important line of reasoning because Aikido in particular is the victim of a multitude of unfair comparisons, evaluations and straw man arguments. Aikido and MMA expect different things from their students, and their students should expect different things from their respective arts.
Analyzing MMA and Aikido
When evaluating how “good” Aikido is, we must ask, how good at what? How good are Aikido techniques in a MMA competition fight? Or how good is Aikido, as a martial art, in acheiveing the goals it sets out for itself? How good is Aikido training in preparing a fighter mentally, physically and technically for a MMA bout?
It’s generally accepted that Aikido is a defensive art; its techniques emanate from the philosophy of gentleness, control, and flowing with an attackers power. Many techniques are designed to address weapons (Japanese sword arts) and multiple attackers; techniques involve wrist locks, joint manipulation and throws but never strikes or kicks. I know a couple of policemen and bouncers who have used Aikido effectively. Aikido is non-competitive art. Aikido also has a large spiritual component as well.
Now consider the rules and goals of MMA. The general goal of MMA training is prepare a person to be able to win MMA fights. The fighter can win fights by knocking his or her opponent out, submitting them via chokes/joint locks, or scoring well on judges score cards. Generally, competitions are made up of 3 five-minute rounds; fighters wear 4-ounce fingerless gloves, no shirt and fight-shorts; eye-poking, biting and neck/groin strikes are prohibited; judges score rounds on a 10 point system based on aggressiveness, ring control, strikes landed, etc; timidness or avoiding the fight in the ring can cause a reduction in points; small joint manipulation is illegal; You get the idea.
From this, its easy to see that Aikido diverges from MMA and creates a product to suit its framework.
The Crossover of Aikido and MMA
From what I’ve said above, you probably get the idea that Aikido has a little, but some, overlap with MMA. Still, you’re probably asking, “Okay, but can Aikido techniques be useful in MMA?”
Yes, absolutely. If you choose the right ones.
Also remember that , Morihei Ueshiba created Aikido from a collection and fusion of Japanese Jujitsu, sword fighting and spear fighting arts. (BTW, the take down Lyoto Machida uses in the vid can also found in Russia) While attending a seminar given by my Sensei’s Sensei he instructed the kimura, armbar and the fireman’s carry throw, among many other things *. In fact, the fireman’s carry is one of his favorite throws – one that a bunch of guys down at Fusion BJJ use – and at 80 plus years old and 110 lbs, he threw me better than a lot of guys I train with now.
There is a fighter named Rik Ellis , an MMA fighter who has an extensive Aikido background (but obviously trains MMA now) and he’s said some interesting remarks. He has said that the Aikido-in-action in MMA is very different than that which is typically trained. The typical stance and hand movements are left behind, but body movement is applicable. When asked, he mentioned a few specific techniques like, “Irimi Tenkan which I use to put my opponent either into or out of the cage wall.” I believe he’s also mentioned using Irimi nague from the clinch, as well.
Also, John H, one of the instructors down at Fusion (who has had a half dozen or so years of Aikido training in addition to his brownbelt in BJJ) told me that the notions of distancing and angles could also be useful in a MMA setting.
The Problem with Aikido as component of MMA training
With that said, there are several major problems in justifying Aikido as an appropriate component of MMA training. Like I said earlier, Aikido isn’t a good match in terms of goals and ideals, so right off the bat it’s like cross-training in snowboarding to get better at water polo.
In no particular order, here are some other things to consider:
Outside of the subset of potentially transferable techniques, Aikdio spends a good deal of time developing things that are of no use or negative impact to your MMA game (stance work and hand position, for example). In contrast, a discipline like collegiate wrestling spends a majority of time giving you tools and attitudes that easily adapt to MMA, and furthermore these tools make up about 1/3 of the MMA game (striking, wrestling and submissions).
Aikido has a lack of attention to defense of fast, linear strikes, striking combinations and leg kicks. Perhaps I’m wrong, but 70-80% of the techniques are geared towards circular strikes, wrist locks, grab counters, gi-manipulation, self-defense applications and throws. (Please, Aikido students correct me if I’m wrong!)
Aikido doesn’t teach you how to punch and kick.
The Aikido stance isn’t really that good for MMA. The lower base and front leg forward seems like it could be taken advantage of easily by a good kicker or double leg take down. I heard a story of a Muay Thai student abusing an Aikido guy in a dojo match up with low kicks. The extended front leg got beat up to the point where the Thai guy just stopped out of mercy. Perhaps the tale isn’t true, but it makes sense.
Aikido doesn’t really address ground and pound, clinch fighting and BJJ/wrestling deal with Newaza (ground work) in a fashion more true to MMA, IMO.
Aikido practitioner wear the hakama – a gi – while MMA fighters need to make sure their techniques work 100% without them. Additionally, MMA fighters wrap their hands and wear gloves. The gloves change the game considerable in terms of you ability to grip your opponent and your own hands, as well as hampering wrist locks (if they are even allowed in your MMA fight).
In the world of competitive sports, lack of aggression is a killer. (And don’t confuse yourself: MMA is a sport – not self defense) . The purely defensive mindset of Aikido may be artfully beautiful, but misplaced in MMA. The best defense is a good offense, as they say.
Aikido has a steep learning curve. It’s complex and requires a deep amount of body sensitivity and awareness. These things do not come quickly. I remember my Sensei talking to me about a wrist-lock called the 20-year technique; a move that obviously required a lot of work to become good at it. Not to say that a six-month “20-year technique” wouldn’t be useful; however, from my experience, it’s reasonable to say that a simple one year punch beats a complicated one year punch defense. To me, Aikido seems like something you have to get into it for the long haul for it to triumph other things.
MMA has an inherent element of physical fitness training built into it. Aikido can make you more flexible and relaxed, perhaps burning a modicum of energy, but Aikido in no way prepares you for the rigors of fighting. Strength-endurance, explosive power and top-notch cardio aren’t found in there.
Additionally, there is the problem with technique selection. Sure a standing kimura could be a valid technique, but wouldn’t a straight jab be more useful a greater portion of the time?
Summary
So there you have it. When someone asks, why isn’t Aikido or Tai Chi or Kung Fu used MMA, you have an answer for them. Divergent expectations, rules and goals. Apples and oranges and pineapples.
I want to remind you that I’m in not “bashing” Aikido. I think it’s a wonderful thing with a lot of fascinating philosophy, tradition, and technique. It’s just not a great fit in terms of complementing MMA performance.
Also, if you’re looking for an Aikido class, Logan Heinrichs is an excellent instructor and teaches at the University of Utah (there is a misprint in the instructor name this semester).
P.S. If I’m ignorant to the facts, inform me! If you’ve got an opinion, share it!
* Including how to defend against a seated opponents sword draw when you are facing off with him, kneeling face to face.
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- 1 Sep 2009 3:08 PM
- Comments (12)
September 1st, 2009 at 3:14 pm
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September 2nd, 2009 at 1:11 pm
To me the more you know the better. I played a lot of racquetball in high school and I invited a friend of mine to come join us one time, he’d never played before, but his athleticism in basketball, football and other sports gave him a “head-start” in racquetball skills and he picked it up really quick.
While I’m sure there are some habits that would need to be broken for fighting (wrestlers and jiu-jitsu practitioners go through the same thing) I don’t see why knowing Aikido would be a bad thing. If anything it could give you an edge in MMA. If everybody is so familiar with Striking, Wrestling, and Jiu Jitsu, an Aikido throw would slip through, like that Machida video you posted. Take downs are big points.
September 2nd, 2009 at 4:29 pm
I agree, it can only help round out your game, but certainly can’t stand on its own the Machida vid is a excellent example.
September 15th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
hi…….i think this is a great source of knowledge about aikido mma
While I’m sure there are some habits that would need to be broken for fighting (wrestlers and jiu-jitsu practitioners go through the same thing) I don’t see why knowing Aikido would be a bad thing. If anything it could give you an edge in MMA. If everybody is so familiar with Striking, Wrestling, and Jiu Jitsu, an Aikido throw would slip through, like that Machida video you posted. Take downs are big points.thx..
glad to send
October 4th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Hey,
I really liked how you approached the distinction between aikido and MMA. I really respect that.
But the question i think you might want to ask is not which martial arts is better? Its rather who is better trained. So when you talk about cardio training and straight punches and low kicks, i agree there are no explicit moves that is taught in aikido to counter these.
I have been studying aikido for 2 years and the thing that fascinates me the most about aikido is that there is so much to explore and ur not only training your body but you have a lot of food for thought too.
I think the one reason that you missed that aikido is not used in MMA is because MMA tends to be a drawn out brawl with a lot of punching and ground and pound (correct me if i am wrong) but aikido having come from samurai martial arts in the medieval ages, its not built to mess about. Its one move kill. That is the basic philosophy. One does not mess about doing blocks as you must have seen in the videos when a guy actually does a wrist or elbow lock, it pretty much breaks and the fight ends. I dnt think that would go down really well with the sponsors.
The other major point is the philosophy behind aikido is peace and non violence until pushed to the edge. So the people who do train and get really really good at it would not take part in MMA anyway coz by that time, they have moved on to another plane of philosophy which as much as it sounds like a cliche is actually true. And there is no sense of competition in aikido because we do train with deadly seriousness. And to all who think aikido is BS, i guess i can only say how can one judge something without even trying it and aikido is something which takes at least 10 years of training to even understand what KI is hehe. I know its a insane challenge but thats where the fun is
.
Peace
And its kinda cool you could actually read through all this.
October 14th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Agree, Aikido ‘techniques’ by itself has no place in mma, or dare I say it, in street fighting. This is from someone with a dan grade in aikido and over 10 years experience (me).
You talked about techniques and stances, which brings up good points. The problem is a lot of practitioners see aikido techniques and stances as ‘the real deal’, rather as training tools to enforce/explore certain fighting principles, body use, angles and leverage. For example, the long forward stance is impractical, but it enforces certain body use for forward power generation; once you get that you can do narrower stances.
It should be remembered that the founder’s (Ueshiba) original students were already experts in other martial arts (like judo and karate) which had large components of non-cooperative sparring, which in those days were quite brutal. These people did not come to Ueshiba to be taught how to fight someone who will actually fight them back (they’re already good at that). But my guess it that they learned some new principles that can enhance their existing fighting skills.
In other words, Ueshiba’s original students were cross-trainers who did ample amount of realistic sparring. That is what’s lacking these days.
This brings the next point. If those original students were already used to brutal, hard training before they came to Ueshiba, the fact that they called his dojo ‘Hell Dojo’ gave us a clue of the harshness of training that Ueshiba gave them. Hard training where one is pushed to the limit is essential in developing proper mind set for fighting, not to mention the resulting body conditioning. This is what’s lacking in Aikido dojos nowadays. I think Sensei Ellis will agree with me on that one. (note: I’m NOT connected with Ellis Aikido)
I think the interpretation of the saying’ Aikido has 10,000 techniques’ means that the principles of aikido, if trained properly, can be applied to any martial arts ‘techniques’.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:43 am
Rex –
That’s a cool point you’ve brought up that I’ve never considered: original Aikido guys already knew how to put fist to face.
Piyush -
I agree that the complexity and depth are alluring when it comes to Aikido. However, the whole “Aikido is a one move kill – therefore it isn’t allowed.” is a bit of fantasy thinking.
Guys in the UFC are doing elbow, shoulder and leg locks. Guys doing jujitsu are even doing wrist locks while sparring.
Yes, wrist/arm locks are effective.
No, they are not easy to get against a savvy, resisting opponent.
Yes, a good joint lock can be a fight stopper.
No, joint locks are not considered a “one hit kill” … unless you consider their old time application with swords. Which are not typically allowed in MMA.
Thanks everybody for commenting!
October 16th, 2009 at 5:58 am
Thanks for this interesting post. – I cross train in Aikido and Judo
There are punches and kicks in Aikido, they just aren’t commonly practiced. There are defences against straight punches in Aikido. Many etemies will address straight punches.
The Notion that Aikido is purely defensinve is false. There is a offensive and defensive components to every aikido technique.
My Aikido instructor taught an Aikido class to people of mixed diciplines. They were all fourth and fourth dan and above. He could handle all the strikers quite easily. – He even beat the boxer Sam Soliman (who lost to Anthony Mundine) using pure Aikido. He told me he definately go t caught out by the grapplers at first, but in the end no one could really get him down. Lots of people would challenge him and few would get a punch in.
I know it sounds like an urban myth or some mythical character off ‘Kill bill, but I learn off this guy and he is exquisit. A warrior out of his time.
Peace out.
December 30th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
I practiced Yoshinkan Aikido under Jo Tambu in melbourne for over a decade as a young man. And my experience is quite different to some of the other posters. For instance, there is no fixed fighting stance in aikido, as the form is reactive and fluid. Katas are necessarily practiced from various starting positions, but any initial stance is really just a function of the kata itself. If aikido does have a ’stance’ its probably arms to the side, with legs in line shoulder width apart, and the center of gravity slightly lowered. effectively no stance at all.
People often criticise aikido’s impracticality in a street fight, and to some degree such detractions are fair. But in Aikido the highest premium is placed on avoiding the attackers strikes first and foremost.
So although i’ve never kotagayashed someone in a real blue (as much as i’ve wanted to and tried), i have consistently employed the skills aikido taught me in evasion, and using an opponents force and strength against them.
January 6th, 2010 at 3:56 am
Very interesting post and comments from everyone.
I’ve been practicing Aikido for some time and received my sho-dan and find that I’m still learning. I find Aikido a long learning curve that takes many years (more like many decades) to master. When starting out I found that new students use power to overcompensate for technique and the higher level you are, the more you try to use technique instead of power.
But even so, Aikido can be very deadly when used wrong. We learn Aikido to try to control the opponent using the least movement or damage to either party. But there are some techniques that can be damaging or deadly if not done correctly. I’m sure most of aikido users no what I’m talking about with Shiho-nage. If not done correctly, it can break the elbow, so we try to do it without harming too much to the opponent.
MMA uses strikes and ground work and I find that most MMA users get their black belt in less than 2 years. That quickness in getting black belts gives them overconfidence and lack of discipline sometimes.
In real fights, I’m sad to say that I have used Aikido to get out of those situations and learned that because of my lack of training I ended up injuring them more than I needed to. The injuries to my opponent from my Shiho-nage and Kotegaeshi showed me I need more training to make it more effective, not painful.
I’ve seen my Senseis, Sensei’s Uchi-deshi (live in student) who’s 45 years old 180lb training for 20+ years threw a 240lb 4-Dan Judo practitioner across the room one day because he challenged him. The Judo guy was fine and wasn’t injured at all.
I know some people may say Aikido is a weak martial art, but there are many styles of Aikido. There are some gentle ones (I practice) or some that emphasis on hurting the opponent.
I also find that once people start practicing Aikido they don’t want want to dishonor it by going into MMA to promote it.
February 17th, 2010 at 6:37 pm
Aikido is not really a sport, it’s a martial art. You can compare Aikido to the Buddhism of martial arts. O’sensei developped Aikido to promote peace. Aikido takes many years to learn, until une reaches old age but I feel the rewards are great, especially when we talk about Ki.
July 31st, 2010 at 4:19 pm
[...] said this before about Aikido – we should be careful to attribute things to a system that it may not even claim about [...]